Travis Lovett on a Walk for Truth

In this episode of Community Conversations by Clothing The Gaps, we sit down with Travis Lovett, a leader in Australia’s truth-telling movement and founder of the Walk for Truth.

This conversation dives deep into:

• Why truth-telling is essential for healing and progress
• The real lived experiences behind Australia’s history
• The myths and misconceptions about First Nations people
• What the Yoorrook Justice Commission uncovered
• Why a national truth-telling process is needed now
• The emotional weight of carrying community stories
• How everyday Australians can be part of change
• The impact of the Walk for Truth movement
• What the future could look like if we get this right

This isn’t about blame.
It’s about understanding.

Because healing can only happen when truth, justice, and action come first.

Chapters

00:00 “History Is Always Told by the Oppressor”
00:24 Introduction to Trav & Truth-Telling
02:15 Identity, Language & Resistance
05:27 Where Australia Is Right Now
07:36 The Power of Walking Together
09:01 Calling for National Truth-Telling
11:01 Debunking Myths About First Nations People
13:15 The Weight of Truth-Telling Work
15:05 From Stories to Solutions
17:21 Why This Responsibility Belongs to Everyone
18:21 Truth → Justice → Healing
19:31 What a National Process Could Look Like
22:44 Why Truth-Telling Must Be Local & National
25:15 Creating Safe Spaces for Sharing Truth
28:21 Celebrating Strength, Not Just Trauma
28:46 For Those Who Feel Uncomfortable
31:36 Understanding Context, Not Blame
32:40 The Walk for Truth Movement
34:58 Why Walking Creates Real Connection
36:43 How You Can Get Involved
37:07 What Could Change in 10–20 Years
40:43 Ways to Support the Movement
42:09 Final Reflections & Invitation to Act

More Information:
The Walk for Truth - https://www.walkfortruth.com/

Yoorook Justice Comission - https://www.yoorrook.org.au/

Open Letter to the Prime Minister - Add your Name Here

Transcript

speaker-0 (00:00.11)

But history is always told by the oppressor. There's this mixed notion out there that our mob get everything. That's technically not true. And the data says in Victoria we are ten times more likely to contact homelessness services. We as a people want to heal, but it needs to be based on truth, on justice. Come and join us on the walk for truth. We need to have conversations. Honest conversations about how we move forward together.

speaker-1 (00:24.206)

Hello and welcome to Community Conversations, the podcast from Clothing The Gaps. At Clued in the Gaps, we often say that it's more than a tea, it's a conversation starter. And this podcast is where those conversations continue as we sit down with inspiring people from community to talk about justice, advocacy, and the stories of the movements that got us to where we are today and those shaping the future. My name is Sarah Sherry. I'm non-Indigenous and the co-founder of Clothing The Gaps.

And we're recording today on Wurundjeri and Bunurong Country and I honor the traditional owners of these lands. I'm grateful for elders past and present and honor their knowledge, lived experience, resistance, as this always was and always will be Aboriginal land. Today, I'm really privileged to be joined by Travis Lover, especially in the countdown to the National Walk for Truth. Travis is a proud Kerrup Mara and Gunditjmara man, the inaugural executive director of the new Center for Truth-Telling and Dialogue at Melbourne University.

And prior to this, was the Deputy Chair and Commissioner of the Europe Justice Commission, Australia's only formal truth-telling process that happened right here in what we now call Victoria. For many years, Trav has been at the forefront of work to ensure the truth of this country are heard, understood, and most importantly, acted on. From his leadership in Victoria's truth and treaty process to his role in shaping national conversations about justice, healing, and structural change. Trav is also the founder of the Walk for Truth.

a powerful movement that brings people together to walk across countries, listen and reckon with the truth. In a recent open letter to the Prime Minister, Trav wrote that the story of this country is still unfinished and the truth is the missing chapter. And today's conversation is about what it means to tell and hear and really hear that truth and what it can unlock for all of us. Trav, welcome to Community Conversations.

speaker-0 (02:15.622)

and thanks for the opportunity to come and have a yarn and connect. I think it's always an amazing opportunity to come and share some of our lived experience, but also, as our ancestors have done, walk beside non-Aboriginal people to elevate our lived experience, but also advocate for rights and to see change across our society as well. As accustomed to our people, and I appreciate the introduction there.

speaker-0 (02:59.046)

Speaking in language

I just acknowledge country there and I think it's always really important and you mentioned this word that really resonates really well with me which is resistance.

And why I share language and why I've made an active choice to share language is because of the resistance of our people, because it was government policy forced upon our people through the role of churches and missions that we weren't allowed to share that culture and share that language and so forth as well. So I always try to pay respects to our old people, our ancestors, to recognise that their fight, their struggle and their resistance actually really meant something and we're continuing on.

with their legacies and so forth and elevating their lived experience as well as we're talking today about truth and about justice but also about how we move forward together.

speaker-1 (03:45.08)

Thank you so much for sharing language with us as well. And that reawakening and revitalization of language is so powerful. What's that been like for you?

speaker-0 (03:55.206)

language is a cornerstone of identity. And that was something that colonisation tried to take from us. It was language, it's connection to country and so forth as well. going through that reclamation process and actually having the ability to learn myself, and I'm still on my own journey as well about learning more words and so forth, but also being able to have my kids get up at school and I'm teaching my kids.

But for them to get up at school and acknowledge country and language, you know, my daughter's been doing that, she's now 12 and she started doing that at seven years old, you know, getting up in front of a thousand kids at seven. And that was something she wanted to do, it wasn't ever forced upon her and it was one of the sort proudest moments in my life and just, you know, again, to share that with students coming through schools and, but also with the ancestors as well. Again, as I said, to let people know that this is the oldest continuous culture in the world and we want

We as mob are already proud of that and we want everyday Australians to be proud of that. You know, it's our culture, it's Australian culture and I think that's something that's really special as well. yeah.

speaker-1 (04:58.958)

Trav, I hear that so much. For me as a non-Aboriginal person, it makes me so proud to hear language and to see that growing and gaining strength in 2026. Trav, when I think back to seven-year-old Trav, who probably would have loved that opportunity to have been taught and learn language, a lot's shifted in the last couple of decades. Hey, how would you describe where we are right now in this country?

speaker-0 (05:27.458)

people have got a stronger understanding of our people's lived experience, you know, and I've really had to repivot myself because I used to use the word stories quite a lot and I think a lot of the time with our people and our lived experience tells us that a lot of non-Aboriginal people love the culture, the song, the dance, the language, everyone wants to engage in that stuff, but when it comes to lived experience around injustices, we don't want to talk about that, and that happened in the past. Being able to, I guess, you know,

talk about those lived experiences and share those as well, but also the growth in what we're seeing around culture, around the place, with the work that you've been doing at Clothing the Gaps as well. I live in the northern suburbs of Melbourne and not just in the northern suburbs, but I see the footprint that you've created and the ripple effect that you've created, and it makes me proud. And this is what our elders and ancestors really wanted, to walk with non-Aboriginal people.

Whilst there's still lot of injustices that are still out there and still happening, deaths in custody, over representation of our children in the child protection system, and I can keep going on with those injustices. mean, only four of the 19 closing the gap targets are on track. I mean, that is just diabolical in itself as well. But also people wanting to learn and understand more.

about how we move forward together, but also people understanding the true history, because history is always told by the oppressor. And we've had that unique ability at the Uduak Justice Commission to really set the record straight about our people's lived experience here in this state. I guess continue to talk about that lived experience and also have those truths form a part of Victoria's treaty process. I'm still pinching myself that I'm sitting here talking.

to you today, but when I mentioned that word treaty, it was such a foreign concept. You know, when the premier turned around and said, well, we're going to do treaty for us, Mubba was like, well, hang on, this is something we'd marched for and we called for, but we don't know what that looks like. And that's okay because we'd never been empowered as the people to say, what is treaty? What do we want in treaty? Of course we want land rights, of course we want water rights and rights for...

speaker-0 (07:36.436)

know, human rights to be respected and elevated. There is certainly a, I guess, a continuation and people who have more of a, guess, you know, gaining more of an understanding and wanting to stand beside our people as well. To walk from Portland initially to NAM, you know, have 22,000 people walk with us, like, you know, that concept came from me and my wife sitting on the couch at our house and saying, well, I think I'm going to walk from Portland to Parliament.

Because we wanted to raise awareness and we wanted to create an open and honest conversation about history and lived experience but also invite non-Aboriginal people in Because we're living in this and walking this every day. So how do we do that? And I think you know seeing that and particular post the voice where you know, we as a people have felt that You know people have gone quiet so actually seeing that in a physical form of that and solidarity and support

It was absolutely special, not just to me, and that's why I said to the mob, it's like they didn't walk for Trav, they walked for us.

speaker-1 (08:38.126)

And it was so powerful. was huge. was enormous. And the momentum, I think, that you gained there and that shift that you were just talking about, about the way that there is still a lot of work to do, but there is a lot of support for the work that is being done as well. And Trav, your open letter to the Prime Minister was so easy to sign, by the way. How many signatures are you up to now? You just talked about four, but...

speaker-0 (09:01.25)

Yes, so we're proud to say that more than 5,500 people have signed that open letter to the Prime Minister calling on Anthony Albanese to establish a national truth-telling process. We've seen what the power of truth-telling can do in Victoria. Those recommendations that we provided and the official public record that we established, all legally fact-checked mind you, has created...

blueprint for what can happen and we should be having a national conversation and also the commitments that the Prime Minister's already made. I'm not asking and we as a people are not asking for new commitments, we're just asking him to implement what he committed to doing. Implement all the elements of the Uluru Statement from the heart, voice, treaty and truth. Now we understand that the voice you know didn't go our way but that's okay but we get ourselves off like Australians do and we dust ourselves off and we move forward and we move forward together.

do what you said that you would do. Establish a national true talent process and we're bringing the walk to ya.

speaker-1 (10:03.048)

Absolutely. I think that to that night of the election win and that speech often actually, Trev, and I couldn't agree more. It's nothing new. It's just asking for action on what's already been committed to publicly, very publicly. As you said, the Europe Justice Commission here in Victoria established a public record of the lived experience. And you're so clear about referring to those accounts, not as stories, but as lived experiences. And I really appreciate your reflection before about

that it's lived experience and they're not fluffy, lovely stories that people can often associate with culture and the dreaming and things that people like to romanticise about different things. And it's about sitting with the truth and the full truth and fact-checked truth, as you said. What have you taken away from that process that you think all Australians need to hear?

speaker-0 (11:01.134)

We don't get everything. There's this mixed notion out there across Australia that our mob get everything. And in particular, something that strikes me when I was, I got a taxi ride home, because I wasn't walking on this particular night, but I got a taxi ride home one night because it very late, and the taxi driver asked me what I did. And I said, well, I'm a proud black fella. I did this work on the commission, really important work, but I'm also now at the university. And then the next.

point to me from the taxi driver was, your people get free houses. And I'm like, well, that's technically not true. And I said, where'd you hear that? And he goes, it's just, we hear it all the time in the taxis and obviously, you know, engaging in society and so forth as well. And I think for me, it's, you know, it's, well, one, it's a lie. It's factual wrong. And also, and the data says in Victoria, which we highlighted at the commission, that we are 10 times more likely to contact homelessness services.

So demystifying the myths out there that we get everything in that as well is certainly something that the Yeruk Justice Commission was able to do. But also, as I said before, history has always been told by the oppressor. And we had the unique ability through the Yeruk Justice Commission to engage with more than 8,000 first peoples to come and share their lived experiences with us. I one of the highlights of my life, not only personally, but also professionally, was to be appointed.

a commissioner first and foremost on the Yoorok Justice Commission and then be asked by the chair to be deputy chair was just an absolute honor and a privilege and to be able to be trusted with that. And that came with a lot of expectations as well. Don't get me wrong, I need to be transparent here that I felt the weight of the world on my shoulders. I'm talking for myself here about making sure we get it right, you know, because...

It was incredibly important that we honoured our people's lived experience and there was, you know, with this injustice, genocide that we found, you know, that there's 49 recorded massacres in the state of Victoria. That's recorded. And again, mob didn't record that. It was non-Aboriginal people that recorded these injustices and so forth. And then sort of the continual failed policy from government as well. mean, government just got smarter at how they wrote it. But the data and the statistics and the evidence that we're able to...

speaker-0 (13:15.832)

translate because we got more than 10,000 documents from the Victorian government to further quantify that it was government policy and government knew the whole time about the continual injustices that our people were faced. But one of the most powerful parts of the Yoorok Justice Commission for me was I personally spent more than 600 hours driving around the state taking truths and listening to truths.

from our people and evidence and we were able to as commissioners and as the staff at the commission were able to translate those lived experiences into recommendations for change and transformation. you know again asking the mob like what do you want to see different? When I first started asking our mob so what do you think the recommendations should be? And of course naturally mob would say you get paid the big bucks bros you sorted out, you're working out bros you know.

And that's a fair comment to make, know, but like, yeah, true, okay, well, I got some ideas, I thought, like, you I've got some ideas, but you're the ones with the lived experience of what you want to see different. So then asking them again, the second time around when I went back to speak to someone, I said, last time I asked you and you said that to me, but I want to ask you again, have you thought more about that? And then actually some of them said,

I have thought more about it and this is what we need to do to see change. Having the official public record that debunks the myths about our lived experience here and telling the full history of what really happened. Not just when we see these colonial monuments right across the state that talks about the innovation that these early colonial figures brought, not actually that they committed massacres against our people, many of these people and so forth as well.

but also not just identify issues, have solutions, which is what we put forward, and to give the mob confidence to also see them recommendations negotiated through some of the treaty process already.

speaker-1 (15:05.966)

Absolutely, and to be able to see them in momentum, I couldn't agree more, as the base of some of that treaty work as well. And the Truth Be Told report has 144 recommendations, if I'm right. What responsibility do you think sits with, or which of those responsibilities sit with individuals as well? These aren't just recommendations, I guess, that we're asking for accountability from government and decision makers and leaders.

I think some of these learnings as well can sit with us as individuals too.

speaker-0 (15:37.198)

I think that's a really good point as well. mean, whilst we, a really important point to make is, Blackfellas never said to everyday Australians, have to apologise to us, because there's another misconception out there. But what we've always called for through our rallies, through our advocacy, is institutions need to be accountable for that institutional harm that they've caused us, which is separate. We do ask people to check their privilege and understand their privileges of what comes with those lives. However, that's the main point.

institutions need to be accountable for that harm as well. But it also sits with everyone about understanding the full lived experience and dealing with facts and evidence is really important. And it's not about blame, it's not about shame, but it's about how we understand the past and how it connects to the future, but also what we can do together to create equity for everybody. When we as First Peoples advocate for our rights or raise the age or bail reform, we advocate for everyone.

And that's something that I think sometimes is a misconception because a lot of it is coming from us about our voice for our people. But we fight for change or advocate or articulate ourselves in the context to make society better for everybody. We are harmonious and a giving people and we've sacrificed a lot and we continue to do so. But at the same time, we want to see equity. And that's what our elders fought for and advocated for. But it's on us all to really get around.

but have continual conversations. Like today, we're having yarns about this stuff. Again, it's not about blame, it's also about how we learn from each other, how we listen and learn and engage with each other, but also how we move forward. Let's not repeat what happened in the history or in the past. Let's actually move forward based on what we can achieve together in the future.

speaker-1 (17:21.582)

That's it. I think knowing where we've been, that old saying again, knowing where you've been helps us get to where we're going so much better and stronger and together. And the Uruk website has the most incredible library of those lived experiences and the facts and the evidence that you're talking about there. And whenever anybody says to me, like, I don't know very much about that. I'm like, uruk.com.au. yeah, that is my go-to place of.

We have to understand, and I don't think in 2026, the excuse of, I didn't know is good enough anymore. It never has been, but it's certainly not today, especially after the work that you've been doing, Trav, and the work of Uruk. And I think that spirit of generosity and being really clear that truth telling isn't about blame, I think is really powerful as well. it is really an olive branch that non-Indigenous Australia really needs to be accepting with.

with open arms, because that feels like healing at a national level to me.

speaker-0 (18:21.664)

And that's exactly what our people have called for. We as a people want to heal. We do want to move forward. But it needs to be based on truth, on justice. Then healing can happen. All of that underpinned by hope.

speaker-1 (18:34.062)

And you say that so powerfully as well of that underpinning of hope and I think yeah that that gives me such a such a fire in the belly and such light as well Trav.

speaker-0 (18:44.622)

Well, I think that's what we've heard from our elders, you know, and that's that legacy that, you know, when we're connected to our mob, we're connected to country and culture and lived experience as well, we want to continue, you know, advocate for rights. Because some of the things we're saying, our old people have been saying for generations as well. you know, and we genuinely believe that. That's our, that's, you know, the deep, I guess, place that we come from as First Peoples, you know, connected to country, to culture, to people. And that's just not our people. We want to connect with everybody, you know?

speaker-1 (19:14.06)

Absolutely. And I think, you you talk really clearly about that work can't be scattered either. We really do need a national approach to truth telling. So you're calling for a legislated properly resourced national truth telling process. If we got this right, Trav, what would that look like?

speaker-0 (19:31.756)

Yeah, I mean, I think this is, there's lessons to learn from what we did in the Yirrug Justice Commission as well. We were a royal commission, even though we went by Yirrug Justice Commission, which is the wamber-wamber word for truth, because it also is really important that again, through that language reclamation process as well, but we were a royal commission. And there's positives to also being a royal commission as well. You know, when government did play funny buggers with us around giving us the information, we had to call them to account. So we had to utilise those powers.

to actually say government, you're dragging your heels here. We need the information because we need to write a report and recommendations. But also having the ability to use research from right across the world to understand, what could a model look like in a national, I guess, context for Australia? We're a very diverse community, first peoples alone and yet everybody else in a sense as well around the dispersity around.

Not everything happens in Canberra, even though people feel probably in Canberra, but everything happens in Canberra. A lot of decisions are made there and so forth as well. But having the ability, I guess, to hear from mob along the walk as well, to be able to elevate what do they want to see? Is it a royal commission? Is it a commission? Is it an inquiry as well? So being able to use best practice around what are the other countries done at a national level.

But also elevating, I guess, our people's voice on the ground, grassroots and actually talking to them as well. I this was the beauty about being on the commission. And many a times when I was speaking to them, when I was yawning to them, they'd say, we need this nationally, bros. We need this nationally as well, because there was also parts of the inquiry from Victoria, we weren't able to inquire into federal matters, it was only state based, which was really important. But there's a different jurisdiction at that Commonwealth level as well. So having the ability to inquire into

other areas of government policy at that level as well. So I'm opening it up really for conversations along the route to hear from the mob director, not as one person deciding on what the best model is, and we'll be taking information, as I said, from more drawing, from inspiration across the world, but also our people's lived experience and what they want to see. And how do we elevate those truths at those local levels into a national conversation?

speaker-0 (21:44.622)

because that's really important. actually, talk about Australian values a lot and we hear a lot of politicians talking about Australian values. And for me, it's more than just a beer and a barbecue. It's actually, you know, the country has been built on the foundation of racism and we haven't had that dialogue and that conversation about that. And there's this notion at the moment, which is really important around broader social cohesion, that word, but how do we continue

have that dialogue, but also first peoples have got to lead that conversation in my view. First peoples have to lead any conversation about social cohesion in this country, given the injustices are still outstanding for our people and we haven't had that national process to really bring it all together about the national story, at the national lived experience as well. We know a lot about, you know, the colonial foundations as in the innovation that was brought and all that kind of stuff, but not actually the lived experience of first people. So let's actually

get a grasp of the lived experience and how we move forward together.

speaker-1 (22:44.842)

Absolutely. I think when I think about innovation in this country and especially in our so-called Victoria, I think about Gunitjmara mob and Budj Bim and you know, one of the oldest examples of aquaculture in the world that's now UNESCO heritage listed. Like the stories that we like to tell ourselves about this country are only scratching the surface and it's only going to make us better, richer, deeper.

and more connected as a nation when we include First Nations stories in that dialogue as well. And that conversation being led by community and that is so important. And Trav, you did a lot of work as well in your book of just speaking about that decentralising out of Canberra. Whilst, bless Canberra, it's very important. No shade to Canberra, the city that we're talking about, national parliament. You crew spent a lot of time going out to community and being

speaker-0 (23:35.724)

Yes, yes, that's right.

speaker-1 (23:41.63)

in different places outside of Melbourne, outside of the city, connecting with people on the ground. think that's a really important learning and reflection from that work too.

speaker-0 (23:51.438)

That's a really important point because a lot of the time these are commissions established in the city. As mob, we're all different. We've got different lived experiences, different truths in different areas as well. And part of our culture is place, place, country, and so forth as well. So having the ability to then say, let's not just ask people to come to NARM to give evidence. And we had one of our justice hearings for water.

on Tattie Tattie country up Robinvale ways as well, which was again, not just coming asking people to come in and at the hearing room there, but actually going and actually talking to people at place and having the ministers out on country also being questioned to mind you, which was, you know, incredibly powerful and something that other royal commissions, you know, particularly in this country is Australia haven't ever done, but also getting out and talking to people, hearing from them in places where they felt safe.

was incredibly important to me around, you know, taking and sitting down and with cups of tea. And I always joke about this because it's really important, but I don't drink tea. But when the aunties make you a cup of tea, Sarah, you drink that cup of tea. Exactly, exactly. And also, how many sugars do you want, Barb? No, aunt, no sugars. Ten. Yeah, correct. right. You know, so, but also, that's safety.

speaker-1 (25:02.36)

I it's I know it.

speaker-0 (25:15.784)

and for them to be able to share. Because we ask people, we ask people to unpack the depths of trauma they've been through in their lives. And we were fortunate enough through this model of Yadook to have social emotional wellbeing to support people. And I think that was something, was a master stroke when the commission was actually designed to make sure that there was support there for people as well. And I think that's...

you know, did we get it right all the time? No, we didn't in full transparency, this is truth telling. But the majority of the time we did get it right as well. having that ability and also lawyers for people as well, some legal assistance to be able to help people to make sure they were further incriminating themselves as well because you know, that truth is complex and it's hard and so forth as well. making sure that there was supports there, like a wraparound model for people as well.

know, taking truth in the front yard, the backyard, the cliche down by the riverbank, all of this as well, I need to stress, was legally checked and tested and everything. I mean, that was the point about, I made earlier about that Royal Commission process, that everything had to be double checked, we've had, you know, hundreds of lawyers look over everything that we provided to the First Peoples' Assembly and the state government as part of our reporting lines, which are them, as well. And I think that that's just, you know, another, I guess,

you know, positive thing that the evidence and the recommendations were all solid, but we as a commission and a truth-telling commission were nothing without the people coming and giving their lived experience. And we're able to identify differential, I guess, you know, not just trauma, but the strength and the resistance and the contributions that our people have made because there's been different progress.

You know, some people have native titles, some people have registered Aboriginal party status as part of government process. But for our mob, we're all TOs, first and foremost. What is now known as Victoria as well. So the innovation of still some of these groups that don't have corporate entity infrastructure, still getting out and doing cultural burns and working collaboratively with government and organisations and collaborating, we're able to share.

speaker-0 (27:26.06)

and actually document some of those lived experiences and those outcomes as well. Because a lot of time when we think about mob, we don't think about our excellence and our contributions and it's a lot of the time wrapped up in the trauma, which is incredibly important. there's people leading strong and I think that's incredibly powerful and seeing not just our young ones, but our people thriving, getting towards that thriving word.

20 years ago we wouldn't be thinking about what you've been able to achieve through the work that you're doing, but other businesses around the place and the work that we're doing on the national walk around engaging black businesses. 20 years ago, look around, was hardly anything, particularly in Victoria as well. So just see that actual, the innovation and the adaptation of our mob being able to navigate and thrive in different places as well. I think it's just so inspiring.

speaker-1 (28:21.934)

Absolutely, and there is so much excellence to celebrate in that as well. Trav, before we get stuck into talking about the Walk for Truth that's coming up, and I want you to reflect on the Victorian Walk for Truth for a second, but to just wrap up this little section for us, so for anybody who's listening that this conversation about truth-telling is making them feel a bit uncomfortable or they're a bit resistant to that, what would you say to them?

speaker-0 (28:46.594)

I think just open your minds and open your hearts to the full lived experiences of our people. This is not about naming you and shaming you. It's a really important point as well. It's about just being open. Take the time to just to sort of sit back and reflect on our lives and our struggle and our resistance and what we've had to endure in this state of Victoria as well. And I think that's, but be open.

And we're not asking you to get out and just change your lives and champion first peoples. think whilst we would love that, that would be great. Of course it would be great. But I think just that empathy of just spending some time and carving out some time and thinking about from our perspective as well. We have been shut out of the economy. This was government policy. People don't understand that our women

speaker-1 (29:22.03)

Of course.

speaker-0 (29:42.648)

had to give birth on the hospital balconies because they weren't allowed in the hospital. You know, we have evidence at the Yoorook Justice Commission of our aunties, not just my auntie, but aunties in a plural sense, in a general sense, writing to the mission managers of those days saying, we have saved up enough money to be able to leave the mission. Can we, you know, via the mission manager, can we please, please, Your Honor?

Can you please grant us the ability to buy the house down the road that's become available? And we have the evidence of the facts of the mission manager writing back saying, thank you for your letter. Unfortunately, we are not going to grant your approval to leave. You know, we had elders come to the commission and talk about having to get a leave passed to be able to leave the missions for the day.

walking in 15 to 20 k's one way and then back out. And if you were late on the way back, we have lived experiences of people living today that they have to sleep under bridges or they have to sleep under trees and hide out because if they were caught, we all know what happened to them.

speaker-1 (30:52.27)

And I think it's so important to stress that these are lived experiences of people that are still alive today. is not when people say, was a long time ago, get over it. This is not ancient history. This is very, very recent. And I think more people understanding the systemic and strategic policies and active decisions that were made by institutions and government. And they full well knew.

what they were doing is really important and the facts and evidence that you have garnered about that is very, very clear. Trav, I just want to thank you for your reflections on people coming to this conversation with a bit more curiosity and empathy as well because a little bit of curiosity can get us a lot

speaker-0 (31:36.906)

Yeah, totally, totally. And you don't have to feel sorry for us, but just understand our context. That's all we're asking. Understand our context and also come to our events. Come and engage with us. You know, we are open people, we are loving people, and we are caring people. And again, we're already proud of that Aboriginal culture that we have and we live with every day. And we want everyone to come and engage in that and be proud to be that. That's about who we are as Australians, you know? Yeah.

speaker-1 (32:02.094)

Yeah, absolutely. I always say that my life is so much richer and deeper by the generosity of people that have shared their culture and experiences with me. so thank you. Trav, in 2025, my brain just went, what year are we in? In 2025, the first Walk for Truth that you led was from Portland to Parliament, as you said, 500 Ks on foot plus was...

All the way from Guninjumara country into Victorian Parliament House in Narmu. You're about to take on a national walk for truth, kicking off on April 19, all the way through to May 27. Tell us all about it. What's the vision for this next chapter?

speaker-0 (32:40.366)

Yes, that's right. I guess we'd be, you know, there's a massive, massive walk the first time, you know, I think, I think initially when I announced the first walk for truth, it was 370 kilometres. That's because literally, I did a Google how far, how many kilometres from Portland to, to, to parliament and said 370, I think it was 373 kilometres. So I thought, oh, no problems at all. Just walk along the road. Little did I know that there was a lot of process and

a lot of council approvals and all this other jazz to be able to go there. it was one of the most amazing things that being able to, I guess, walk beside more than 22,000 Victorians in that first Walk for Truth, but bringing people together as well. But the National Walk for Truth will emulate a similar formula where we are also working with traditional owners right along the route to highlight lived experience, not just the traumas as I said before, but also the innovation and the leadership and the resistance of our

of our people as well. And I think that, you know, that's something that really continually inspires me to see. And when we're walking and we're stopping at these locations of having the TOs like speaking for country, speaking about country connected, but also getting TOs walking country again. Our people have walked country for 60 plus thousand years, you know, and I think that, you know, the walk sort of, you know, I guess is just that.

that continual reclamation of culture, we're passing message sticks on, the TOs, I just had a really deadly yarn this morning with a couple of TOs along the route that they've called me going, we're working on the message sticks, bros. And just to see the passion and so forth, going, I haven't done one before, but we're working with the elders and we're getting knowledge and you know, this and that and the other. I think that that's incredibly important that they're, again, going through that process. This important walk as well will be, I guess, 800 kilometres this one. So this is big.

double the efforts as well, but you know, I think that again, it's another opportunity for non-Aboriginal people to walk alongside our mob and to highlight not only the injustices, but also coming together, sharing culture, sharing connection. And it's an opportunity as well for people who have sat on the sidelines and gone, well, what's all this about this Aboriginal stuff, you know? Because people are curious, but they don't know how to kind of interact. So...

speaker-0 (34:58.232)

Come and join us on the walk for truth. Come and listen and learn and engage with traditional owners directly. I'm learning a lot as mob. I don't know everything about Victoria. So when I'm walking alongside TOs, they're sharing knowledge, they're getting out and walking their country, but also walking with people. You're at the same level. There's no hierarchy. It's just conversations. It's organic. It's beautiful. And on the first walk, which I'm confident is going to happen again, we had farmers come and join us.

who also then ended up returning artifacts that their families have held for three generations. We never in our minds, me and Renata thought that this would ever happen and seeing that happen multiple times, having people who would never ever engage with first peoples come out and walk, and they're still in contact with me as well. So just having that ability to be able to do that, create space and walk with people is so healing, it's so important.

and we're encouraging people to jump on the website, www.walkfortruth.com and sign the open letter, consider adding your name to that important call to action. Again, nothing new for Albo, it's not a new commitment we're asking, it's for him to do what he'd already said he would do. We've got more than 5,500 signatures already, which just, I still have to pinch myself.

But we've also got more than 80 Aboriginal businesses and mainstream businesses and organisations who have publicly pledged support, more than 80. You can register for a leg of the walk as well and I think that's incredibly important. The full route is live and we're really excited about that and we've worked really hard with the TOs as well.

speaker-1 (36:43.694)

You've done such an amazing job. was on the website a couple of days ago and all of the different legs are in mine and Laura's diary. And I'm already really excited about the day that you've got planned at the league on day two, I believe it is, as you kick off, which is really exciting. Trav, if Australia truly committed to truth telling and truth hearing, what could change in the next 10 to 20 years, do you think?

speaker-0 (37:07.776)

I think it brings us together as Australians. We as a people want to heal, we want to move forward. And as I said before, it needs to be based on the truth though. We've got unfinished business as a country and having the ability to bring people together to call on the government to establish a national truth-telling process. Our country as a whole right now with what's going on in the world, we need to come together, we need to have conversations, honest conversations about how we move forward together.

And I think that's a really important point and that's why we're walking as well. We want to heal. First peoples have told me, not just in Victoria, I've travelled right across the country going, you know, we can't keep going on like this. We're losing our elders, you know, and the younger ages as well, you know, and people want to see change, you know. We want our lives as first peoples to be respected like everybody else's lives.

that equity comment that I made before, not just equity of lifespan, but equity of prosperity, of opportunity, of that's what we want and what we're asking as well. But we want to walk beside non-Aboriginal people. We don't want the injustices to continue. We want people to understand us more.

And the opportunity has always been there. We've always opened our minds and opened our hearts, but we need everyday Australians to also come and walk with us and come and move forward with us as well. That's the beauty about having a process where we can come up with recommendations around how we move forward. Let's actually have a conversation about what Australian values are based on the evidence and the facts of our lived experience. And let's also think about...

things like, you know, what does it look like? Like we've recommended in the UDUK Justice Commission about curriculum changing. You know, it's not about rewriting history for people who they just want to rewrite history. No, we want the full story told. We as First Peoples know that there's age appropriacy around when we are talking about, you know, curriculum reform and those types of things as well. Because we've also got our kids who are at the same schools who are learning at the similar rate as well.

speaker-0 (39:19.634)

as well. we're cognizant of that, but it's come together. Let's really reset the Australian values in a positive way that also has First Peoples and other communities who have come to this country to come together and we move forward together. I think that's a really important point.

speaker-1 (39:38.926)

Absolutely, and I think that really reiterates what you said before, Trav, about the work that Yurok and national truth-telling will do benefits all Australians. It's not just about, well, we want to see things 110%. We want to see things better and more equitable for mob as well, but it benefits everybody. I'm so grateful that we live in a treaty era and a truth-telling era in Victoria, which still brings the biggest smile to my face. that, you know, my kids will grow up going through school.

knowing more and having more to understand because of the lived experience that you crew have captured through Uruk and have documented than what I did and what my parents did and what my grandparents did. So I'm really grateful for that work. Trav, you said once that we walk because of your love for country means loving it enough to change it. For people who really resonate with that and want to get involved.

They can jump on a leg of the National Walk for Truth. They can sign the open letter to the Prime Minister. They can, what other ways can people support you?

speaker-0 (40:43.436)

Yeah, I think share on social media as well. you know, follow us on social media, but also share, share on social media as well. And I think on the last day of the walk, we're really trying to mobilize the whole country. So encouraging people to jump on socials and, you know, dedicate their walking leg on the 27th of May or their exercise for the day and put it on socials that they're dedicating that to the National Walk for Truth. It's not a first people's initiative. Whilst it's first people's led, let me be clear on that.

it is actually for everybody. you know, dedicate some time, some energy, and, you know, come and join us on the National Walk for Truth as well. It is open to everybody. It's a genuine invitation to all Australians, but also last time on the walk, we had people from right across the world come, which is absolutely exciting when, you know, Americans are turning up and Canadians are turning up and...

Europeans who actually flew from Europe to come and walk. It was like, wow, you come this way. We came just to walk. I'm like, wow, like, you know, it brings a tear and it gets all emotional because it's, you know, it shows that there is not only support across Victoria at that point in time, but Australia, but also nationally and as well, you know, the data and the statistics that that that support for truth telling has increased. And again, add your name, add your name to that open letter calling on the prime minister to establish a national truth telling process.

and we look forward to walking alongside you.

speaker-1 (42:09.462)

Trav, I'm just so excited to know that on the 27th of May, when you walk into those steps of Parliament House in Canberra, I just, I'm dreaming of a giant number that is gonna be on those signatories of people backing your open letter to the Prime Minister. We'll see you on April 19 on the steps of Parliament House here in Ngaum in Victoria. Trav, a huge thank you for joining me on Community Conversations.

We really can't wait to see the National Walk for Truth kick off. And I think I just want to sneak in a little shout out to Renata as well, your amazing wife who backs and walks alongside you and supports all of the work that you do as well. And Tim, if there's something from today's episode that has stayed with you, we hope it starts a conversation where you are. We'll put all of the action pieces and links to more information in the show notes for you to follow along because...

As Trev said, hearing the truth comes with a responsibility for action and the invitation for us all to get involved is right there. So we'll see you next time.

speaker-0 (43:11.31)

Thanks for the opportunity to come and have a yarn and I also will reiterate the support for my wife Renata. We wouldn't be able to do this and I think this is the beauty about, similar to what yourselves have emulated about Aboriginal people and non-Aboriginal people walking together into a better and more equitable future as well. The time, the effort and the dedication that Renata has put in, no words can articulate my appreciation but also our mobs appreciation for.

the sacrifice as well. in my language and thanks for the opportunity to come today but we say Wuruk which means for now. We never say goodbye because we'll always see each other again whether it be on country or whether it be in the dreaming. Wuruk.

speaker-1 (43:53.526)

Wurok Trav, thank you.